Backscatter X-Ray Scanners Being Removed By TSA ? Civil ...
According to this article: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...canners-swapped-out,0,959370.story
The TSA has been removing the backscatter X-ray scanners at some major airports and replacing them with millimeter wave.
I personally think this is a step in the right direction due to the potential harmful effects of the x-rays. As for privacy, some of the L-3 millimeter wave scanners have been reprogrammed to not show a nude body. I hope the backscatters at PHX get replaced by millimeter wave scanners soon. However, to promote competition, I personally think the TSA should purchase some millimeter wave scanners from Smiths Detection in addition to L-3.
[Edited 2012-10-22 11:42:11]
[Edited 2012-10-22 12:06:45]
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter): The TSA has been removing the backscatter X-ray scanners at some major airports and replacing them with millimeter wave.
A step in the right direction, especially given the new variety that don't show the nude body, but rather show a generic body with a little indicator showing where there is an irregularity.
It's also another monumental waste of taxpayer/passenger money since backscatter X-ray should never have been used in the first place.
Your story is a bit short on facts.
What is happening is the TSA is moving the removed machines to medium and small tier airports as the newer millimeter wave machines come on line at the larger ones.
If anything this means more people will be subject to the screening as the goal is to have such machines available at 100% of screening checkpoints in the future.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1): A step in the right direction, especially given the new variety that don't show the nude body, but rather show a generic body with a little indicator showing where there is an irregularity.
It's also another monumental waste of taxpayer/passenger money since backscatter X-ray should never have been used in the first place.
However, the article does not mention that some smaller airports are getting the backscatters. EYW has gotten some over the past couple of months, and there was a recent article about Mesa/Gateway getting two of them over the past month (presumably from PHX when PreCheck opened there).
Neither should be used, there is no conclusive evidence that the millions spent has actually done anything productive.
Quoting gsoflyer (Reply 4):
Neither should be used, there is no conclusive evidence that the millions spent has actually done anything productive.
And the choir says "amen".
There never will be any evidence. It's surprising it doesn't come up in the election. It's such a hot button. They just want people arguing over immigration and abortion, so people ignore everything else. It's working, unfortunately... ?
At least we aren't wasting our lives on the "flag burning issue" this year. That was SOOO important. (that's sarcasm)
Quoting gsoflyer (Reply 4):
Neither should be used, there is no conclusive evidence that the millions spent has actually done anything productive.
My thoughts exactly.
While I'm glad they're getting this harmful technology out of big airports (and into smaller ones, where only unimportant people fly), it STILL doesn't change the fact that the only "threats" the TSA screeners can be counted on to detect are fingernail clippers, pocket knives, water bottles, and baby formula.
Quoting enilria (Reply 6): It's surprising it doesn't come up in the election.
It really isn't. Neither candidate gives a hoot about the scanners. If either one says "we need to remove the scanners," they'll instantly be labeled as "soft on terrorism."
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2): If anything this means more people will be subject to the screening as the goal is to have such machines available at 100% of screening checkpoints in the future.
The problem with this is some airports/terminals just don't have the room in the checkpoints for massive machines.
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7): it STILL doesn't change the fact that the only "threats" the TSA screeners can be counted on to detect are fingernail clippers, pocket knives, water bottles, and baby formula.
It's hard to deny the loaded firearms and other prohibited items the TSA finds on a daily basis. I'm sure many of the items are not intended for harm on aviation, but it makes you wonder. The one week of October 8 saw:
39 firearms (34 of which were loaded) in carry-on baggage. Airports included MYR, MCI, DCA, MEM, VPS, TUL, SAT, HOU, RAP, CHS, CID, RDU, FLL, CLT, CMH, ATL, SMF, BNA, LAX, JAN, ABQ, DFW, PDX, IAH and probably a few more airports I missed.
A stun gun disguised as a cell phone at TPA, along with a fully loaded magazine and knife
Stun Guns at EWR, IAD, LGA, OKC, DEN, ATL, and JAX.
Large knife and brass knuckles at JFK
An inert grenade at RIC
A cane with a knife concealed inside at LGA
That is a lot in one weeks time.Things such as a knife concealed in a cane don't just happen for no reason, either.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): 39 firearms (34 of which were loaded) in carry-on baggage.
There should be 39 permits for any type of weapon revoked for that. That is a definite fail at any test for carrying any weapon.
They found a loaded gun in GSO within the past two weeks.
Which begs why GSO needs 4 full body scanners on top of it. And the gun was found AFTER the scanners were installed. GSO has 60 flights per day, mainly regionals, and yet, there are less than 15 flights per day per scanner and that's a million dollars or more of scanning equipment here.
So, yeah, and what is proven that they've solved other than slower lines, especially connections at airports where you have to go back through circuity to make connections.
Quoting gsoflyer (Reply 11): So, yeah, and what is proven that they've solved other than slower lines,
I don't know that the millimeter wave machines appreciably slow the line down. Certainly, it's quicker than 2 or 3 trips through the WTMD followed by a wanding when the person still can't get his pockets emptied.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): Things such as a knife concealed in a cane don't just happen for no reason, either.
It doesn't necessarily signal "terror suspect," though. Some people (read: lots of people) are just nuts and would enjoy carrying a cane around with a knife hidden in it. They think it's cool or something...
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): Things such as a knife concealed in a cane don't just happen for no reason, either.
Actually, I read somewhere that occasionally cane knives are confiscated from elderly folks who got them as a gift from overseas somewhere. But that's neither here nor there and the body scanners aren't hitting on cane knives.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12): I don't know that the millimeter wave machines appreciably slow the line down.
The MMWs are faster than the backscatters, no doubt, but they are generally slower than the WTMDs. If you had to empty your pockets for the WTMD, you have to for the MMWs. A couple weeks ago at SFO, I beat my stuff through the bag x-ray when using the MMW. However at SNA, there were four or five people ahead of me and my stuff was long out of the x-ray when I cleared.
In my experience the problem with the MMWs is they've replaced one WTMD with a MMW. So, for example in PDX each bag x-ray machine had a WTMD. Now, you've got two bag x-ray machines feeding in to one MMW. Same goes for SFO, LAS, SNA, ABQ etc.
Quoting N766UA (Reply 13): Some people (read: lots of people) are just nuts and would enjoy carrying a cane around with a knife hidden in it. They think it's cool or something...
It's only nuts in certain circumstances. Many people are bladed weapon collectors (myself included). If said person has a cane with a knife in it and they usually walk with it, then it's easy to see how they might forget about it when traveling. But, fancy body scanners aren't really needed to find something like that.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): It's hard to deny the loaded firearms and other prohibited items the TSA finds on a daily basis.
Yes, people lose sight of this.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): I'm sure many of the items are not intended for harm on aviation, but it makes you wonder.
Well, decades ago there was an epidemic of hijackings that tapered off once airport security was put in place. So, having some sort of security is useful.
Quoting chrisair (Reply 8): Neither candidate gives a hoot about the scanners. If either one says "we need to remove the scanners," they'll instantly be labeled as "soft on terrorism."
Exactly. The demagoguery of politics makes it difficult to take nuanced, rational positions, when your opponent can just resort to calling you 'soft on terrorism', or 'soft on crime' or 'soft on drugs' or whatever.
Seems I get patted down sometimes when going through the full body scanners. The TSA agent admitted to me that the machines give off false alarms a lot on cargo shorts. Sometimes the machines pick up scars on a persons body. I know for a fact this summer the machines flagged a scar on my leg 3 or 4 times as an item of interest.
Quoting chrisair (Reply 14): The MMWs are faster than the backscatters, no doubt, but they are generally slower than the WTMDs.
It depends on the crowd, I think. Because you only get one chance with the MMW versus 2 or 3 with the WTMD, an airport that sees a lot of infrequent/leisure travelers is going to see the MMW help flow more than an airport with a lot of business travelers who don't trigger the WTMD.
Being able to leave watches on for the MMW is nice, too.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): It's hard to deny the loaded firearms and other prohibited items the TSA finds on a daily basis.
But what's more important is the number of firearms and other items that don't belong on an airplane that TSA doesn't find. And government tests show a disturbing failure rate.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): Things such as a knife concealed in a cane don't just happen for no reason, either.
Yes, they do. Sometimes people think they're cool, but forget about them when flying.
Quoting freakyrat (Reply 17): I know for a fact this summer the machines flagged a scar on my leg 3 or 4 times as an item of interest.
Occasionally when wearing polo shirts, my collar gets flagged. Not sure why. And I don't wear them popped up, either. ?
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18): Being able to leave watches on for the MMW is nice, too.
But is having to take a belt*, wallet, boarding pass, hotel keys etc out of your pocket worth keeping your watch on?
* My belt never alarms the WTMD. YMMV, obviously.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 9): It's hard to deny the loaded firearms and other prohibited items the TSA finds on a daily basis.
Yes, it's hard to deny. But it's also hard to see why anyone should care. Post 9/11, thanks to passenger awareness coupled with ballistic cockpit doors, it's impossible to hijack an airliner anymore. So the only real danger from the gun is the normal danger from someone with a gun...which we're perfectly willing to accept everywhere else in life so it's not clear why we suddenly don't want to put up with it on an aircraft. If we're worried about personal safety from people with guns on an airplane, we should be demanding TSA cover buses, trains, and ferries too.
Tom.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 21): we should be demanding TSA cover buses, trains, and ferries too.
The State of Tennessee wants them to. Which reminds me, I need to look up which idiots in my state government favored that and vote them the heck out...
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